In verse 21 we have a luknos, modion and klinen – a lamp, a grain measure containing about 8.75 litres, almost one peck, a vessel used to hide a light (must be where we get the bushel basket from- something they are storing grain in- I imagine very common place- every family would have one- so there is not much significance in it being a 'bushel basket' , you could substitute waste paper basket- Where it has always sounded weird to me, it wouldn't have caused any blinks in Jesus audience, it is plain common sense, you don't light a lamp and then cover it up- this sentence starts with a meti as well- so it expects a negative answer. And klinen – a bed- and you don't put a lamp under one of these.
“For there is nothing hidden, except that it be made visible/ clear” nor is anything secret except to come to light. Anyone who has hears to hear, let him hear.
So after elaborating the smokescreen policy immediately before this, Jesus then asserts that all will be brought out into the open- the light will shine where it is meant to- where everyone can see it. Is this a bit eschatalogical? Or does everyone get to 'see', (not as Jesus would have them see) but many will not understand? So the seed sown on the rocky ground, in a sense saw but never saw.
I suppose the predominant time frame is the present. Its the kingdom of God Jesus is talking about. When God's rule enters, it is like a light that shines on everything- nothing remains hidden or disclosed except to come to light. Sin has no part of this rule- the light is shone upon all those parts of our lives – a potentially shameful thing- 'Go away from me Lord, for I am a sinful man' – a good confession- the light had shone on Peter- and there's repentance there and redemptive love and power can start its work.
John 8:12... “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but will have the light of life.”
The bizarre thing is when I seek to hide the reality of God's rule in my life- as Jesus points out who would do that. Its like the third soil- the seed sown among thorns- the lamp is mostly being put under the grain holder or under the bed- what is meant to bring light to the individual and to those around them, is not doing what is purposed for- or natural to it.
Saturday, February 20, 2010
The good earth- 4:20
And there are those which are sowed upon the good earth who (are such that) hear the word and embrace (it) and bear fruit, one thirty fold, one sixty fold and one a hundred fold.
paradekomai- receive, welcome, embrace.
BDAG 1. to acknowledge something to be correct, accept, w. a thing as obj. in the accusative.
2. to accept the presence of someone in a hospital manner, receive, accept, w. a pers. as obj. in the acc.
They assign Mark's usage to the first. -I wonder if you can argue it's a bit of the second as well (which is how Zerwick and Grosvenor also seem to take it). Considering that the 'word' could also be thought of as a person. Considering the context it seems to fit- these people hear the word like rich soil- they take it in- more than just a cerebral- ah yes that's correct- I must now align things that way- All this growth starts springing up all over the place- its been received with joy- like guests you have longed to see- the word not just as a book of laws- but how the author of psalm 119 feels about the law
One thirty fold, one sixty fold and one a hundred fold. Definitely got a good return from these soils.
paradekomai- receive, welcome, embrace.
BDAG 1. to acknowledge something to be correct, accept, w. a thing as obj. in the accusative.
2. to accept the presence of someone in a hospital manner, receive, accept, w. a pers. as obj. in the acc.
They assign Mark's usage to the first. -I wonder if you can argue it's a bit of the second as well (which is how Zerwick and Grosvenor also seem to take it). Considering that the 'word' could also be thought of as a person. Considering the context it seems to fit- these people hear the word like rich soil- they take it in- more than just a cerebral- ah yes that's correct- I must now align things that way- All this growth starts springing up all over the place- its been received with joy- like guests you have longed to see- the word not just as a book of laws- but how the author of psalm 119 feels about the law
One thirty fold, one sixty fold and one a hundred fold. Definitely got a good return from these soils.
Godly superannuation sales pitch?- 4:18-19
It's the next group, I think I am far too often a part of. With the help of Zerwick... others are those sown among thorns, these are the ones who hear the word, but the worries of the present age (or which preoccupy men in the world (subj) or (obj) for things of the world) and the deception (allurement) of wealth and the desires concerning the remaining things, come in and choke the word and it becomes unproductive.
The worries of the present age- or things which preoccupy at the expense of more important things- and the deception of wealth. So insidious. So easy to fall for. It does seem too radical to just not worry about those things and seek first his rule. I suppose somewhere there's a place for a prudent proverbs approach- but its got to be in the right context. Jesus talks about people building towers- sitting down to work out the cost and whether they have enough money to build it- the opposite to the rootless person- and here he is talking about being a disciple- you must count the cost and then persevere.
Its not a side issue which Jesus talks to only very occasionally. There are not many stronger themes which run through his teaching- to find yourself you must lose yourself, take up your cross daily, its harder for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle, store your treasure in uncorruptible places, the man who builds bigger barns dies, let the dead bury the dead, don't turn back at the plough share, Follow and entrust your needs to the only place that merits that trust.
What does a godly superannuation salesman do with this?
The worries of the present age- or things which preoccupy at the expense of more important things- and the deception of wealth. So insidious. So easy to fall for. It does seem too radical to just not worry about those things and seek first his rule. I suppose somewhere there's a place for a prudent proverbs approach- but its got to be in the right context. Jesus talks about people building towers- sitting down to work out the cost and whether they have enough money to build it- the opposite to the rootless person- and here he is talking about being a disciple- you must count the cost and then persevere.
Its not a side issue which Jesus talks to only very occasionally. There are not many stronger themes which run through his teaching- to find yourself you must lose yourself, take up your cross daily, its harder for a rich man to go through the eye of a needle, store your treasure in uncorruptible places, the man who builds bigger barns dies, let the dead bury the dead, don't turn back at the plough share, Follow and entrust your needs to the only place that merits that trust.
What does a godly superannuation salesman do with this?
Short term enthusiasts- 4:16-17
The next group immediately receive the word with joy- but they have no root in themselves, but are wanting in perseverance (or unstable), then when affliction or persecution comes on account of the word immediately they fall away.
Tommo in his translation says they are 'short term enthusiasts'.
Both the NIV and the NRSV just have 'they have no root'- and don't worry about the 'en heautois' (in themselves). I wonder why. I suppose it doesn't make a huge amount of difference. Although it does seem to heighten their rudderless state- that outside influences will always hold sway with them- extremely fickle. No, I disagree- I think it does make a difference.
Tommo in his translation says they are 'short term enthusiasts'.
Both the NIV and the NRSV just have 'they have no root'- and don't worry about the 'en heautois' (in themselves). I wonder why. I suppose it doesn't make a huge amount of difference. Although it does seem to heighten their rudderless state- that outside influences will always hold sway with them- extremely fickle. No, I disagree- I think it does make a difference.
Don't mention Satan 4:14-15
I might leave the fall and come back to Jesus explanation. Although there is a link. Jesus is not shy about talking about the reality of Satan- that he is present and active. He equates Satan with the birds- For the first group of people, upon hearing, immediately Satan comes and takes away what has been sown in them. The 'father of lies' Jesus calls him elsewhere. Here- its a case of staying with the lie, not necessarily introducing it. He doesn't want them to hear or see the truth at all, and gives no chance for penetration. Interesting in that the initiative here is placed with Satan. A corrective for one such is I who is a little worried when people mention Satan too much (I still think that possible)- but its not necessarily in keeping with how Jesus sums up a whole swathe of people, or Peter talks to another group who served Jesus- 'Be self controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.'
It would seem I'm fairly Australian in this reticence. Hugh Mackay's figures for Australian belief were something like 70% or more believed in God, 44% in the divinity of Jesus, 43% in the resurrection and around 30% for hell and also Satan. There was something in the Australian or SMH recently that was more recent- and it was still roughly similar.
It would seem I'm fairly Australian in this reticence. Hugh Mackay's figures for Australian belief were something like 70% or more believed in God, 44% in the divinity of Jesus, 43% in the resurrection and around 30% for hell and also Satan. There was something in the Australian or SMH recently that was more recent- and it was still roughly similar.
Veilings and Nephilim
What is the go in the Garden? It seems as though there is not necessarily the veil there- God walks around in it and Adam and Eve are there also. How does the relationship work? How close? I'm just reading the story- its strange. Wondering about the veiled thing- whether that's an after the fall thing. Before it Adam and Eve walked in the Garden with God in the evening breeze- after they are kicked out of the garden- no more walks with God in the evening- his presence no longer as close. And the reason they are kicked out is strange too- “See, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”. Surely they already knew good and evil- that is why they are kicked out- for disobeying- an evil- and they are held accountable for this, which presumes an appropriate level of knowledge.
Was conscience somehow heightened, while the presence of God veiled?
Looks like I might only understand the fall in a catechism type of way. Oh well.
Actually that is not entirely true. I understand the fall from an experiential standpoint. I see its effects played out in my own life- but what was going on in the garden- that's a bit hazy- and maybe a bit uncomfortable, with snakes, and flaming swords and then a few chapters on Nephilim, and heroes of old and men of renown.
Was conscience somehow heightened, while the presence of God veiled?
Looks like I might only understand the fall in a catechism type of way. Oh well.
Actually that is not entirely true. I understand the fall from an experiential standpoint. I see its effects played out in my own life- but what was going on in the garden- that's a bit hazy- and maybe a bit uncomfortable, with snakes, and flaming swords and then a few chapters on Nephilim, and heroes of old and men of renown.
The inside- 4:13
The explanation comes after Jesus has already said that, the secret of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you but to those outside everything comes in parables. Then Jesus seems a little unimpressed that they don't get it- how then will you understand all of the parables? The inference is that the secret of the kingdom has not been given to them due to the fact that they have had parables explained- Jesus seems to think this should be unnecessary- Both those on the outside and those on the inside have access to the same information- Everyone in the crowd gets to sit there and listen and see, they all get to hear the parables- To some (most it would seem) that is what they will always remain- pretty stories perhaps, that they have never had the key to unlock, and never really knew the meaning of- but to others who begin to hear and see, the hiddeness of God's rule, starts to reveal itself- ask, it is given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be open to you.
An orientation of the heart which God gives to or honours.
Complex the whole being drawn and seeking. ... “To you has been given...
If he hadn't sought us, or revealed himself to us (wound the thing up and then let it run of its own accord) we'd have buckleys. He starts it- initiates it.
Yep, sustains it as well- is far more present than I recognise, and far, far more present than those on the 'outside' recognise.
And perhaps in the whole drawing and seeking thing- it's like most things- we struggle to get a proper perspective on our own importance- We refer too much to ourselves and over-reach; whereas the reference point is the creator who gives us an importance seemingly out of kilter with ourselves, a derived thing – Because of the importance I have in the Creators mind and heart- I am important- because of the action of Jesus, because of the Father's love- I am a family member- a son, with the full rights of a son- which is true, wonderful, inalieble (however you spell it), but I am here on Jesus coat tails. Its an importance that cannot be full of itself- it should be full of him- our gaze sweeps past us to him and others. And paradoxically the more this happens, the more we become ourselves and are given ourselves- and don't care about it.
Much there that is theory- but I'm pretty sure is true. It would be good to prove it far more in my life
An orientation of the heart which God gives to or honours.
Complex the whole being drawn and seeking. ... “To you has been given...
If he hadn't sought us, or revealed himself to us (wound the thing up and then let it run of its own accord) we'd have buckleys. He starts it- initiates it.
Yep, sustains it as well- is far more present than I recognise, and far, far more present than those on the 'outside' recognise.
And perhaps in the whole drawing and seeking thing- it's like most things- we struggle to get a proper perspective on our own importance- We refer too much to ourselves and over-reach; whereas the reference point is the creator who gives us an importance seemingly out of kilter with ourselves, a derived thing – Because of the importance I have in the Creators mind and heart- I am important- because of the action of Jesus, because of the Father's love- I am a family member- a son, with the full rights of a son- which is true, wonderful, inalieble (however you spell it), but I am here on Jesus coat tails. Its an importance that cannot be full of itself- it should be full of him- our gaze sweeps past us to him and others. And paradoxically the more this happens, the more we become ourselves and are given ourselves- and don't care about it.
Much there that is theory- but I'm pretty sure is true. It would be good to prove it far more in my life
4:12- bit of a conclusion
Well, put all that together and I think you're probably somewhere in the right area. It is not unfair- and its not fair either- incredibly gracious- but not cheap grace- very serious- the beloved son died to restore relationship between people and the Father- joyful and sober. And though our society can't seem to grasp it – or is pathologically afraid of it- there are consequences. It is a real universe we live in – with a real God who created it- and good and evil are real things- though one day only good will remain. And people – these beings made a little lower than God or angels* are crowned with glory and honour- given dominion over the work of his hands- worth more than many sparrows to him- treated seriously- God “desires everyone to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth” but part of our 'godlikeness' is to choose and to strive for him – We are the captains of our own destiny in this- the offer is extended to all- but all will not be saved- And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil- So I suppose we get to choose whether he will be the captain of our soul or we will- And having written all that – its shorthand for all the myriad contingencies* of life- The light does not always or perhaps often shine from the mountain top- often glimpses through a thick forest- or clouds- or its night and cloudy and somewhere there is half remembered dream of stars- And at various times on the breeze we smell the fragrance of a far sunrise- as his spirit moves mysteriously through our lives, inviting, confronting and inspiring. We have to be open to where that breeze takes us- and as we are, we will see more- where once we stood on the 'outside' and all was dark and parables to us, then we will start to see- light will become more than a half dreamed memory- it will become part of our living experience- and we will come to see this light has a personality; is in fact a person.
Jesus on big signs
John 4:48 Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you see signs and wonders you (plural) will not believe.”
Mk 8:11-12 The pharisees came and began to argue with him, asking him for a sign from heaven, to test him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation ask for sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to this generation.”
Mark has this happening immediately after Jesus has fed the 4000.
The sigh deeply in his spirit is interesting- a sadness there at the patheticness of the generation? a sigh that people won't read the signs that are there? That they won't seek out what is most important in life? That they wont follow clues like hope, life and love and see where they go? That they have a history unlike any other peoples- this interaction with the God of the Universe- the covenants- the substantial revelation of his character- yet they do not hear or see, they do not understand and they do not turn and seek forgiveness- from the Father- which is the very thing he wants to do- that is his nature- Is there anyone among you who, if your child, asks for bread, will give a stone? Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
The pharisees and Sadducees came, and to test Jesus they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. He answered them, “When it is evening, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.' And in the morning, 'It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no signs will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.”
(Mt 16: 1-4)
Mk 8:11-12 The pharisees came and began to argue with him, asking him for a sign from heaven, to test him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation ask for sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to this generation.”
Mark has this happening immediately after Jesus has fed the 4000.
The sigh deeply in his spirit is interesting- a sadness there at the patheticness of the generation? a sigh that people won't read the signs that are there? That they won't seek out what is most important in life? That they wont follow clues like hope, life and love and see where they go? That they have a history unlike any other peoples- this interaction with the God of the Universe- the covenants- the substantial revelation of his character- yet they do not hear or see, they do not understand and they do not turn and seek forgiveness- from the Father- which is the very thing he wants to do- that is his nature- Is there anyone among you who, if your child, asks for bread, will give a stone? Or if the child asks for a fish, will give a snake? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children how much more will your Father in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
The pharisees and Sadducees came, and to test Jesus they asked him to show them a sign from heaven. He answered them, “When it is evening, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.' And in the morning, 'It will be stormy today, for the sky is red and threatening.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no signs will be given to it except the sign of Jonah.”
(Mt 16: 1-4)
Random mission flavour capturing verses
Jesus starts his public mission proclaiming the good news of God.. saying, 'The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent and believe in the good news.'
“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call not the righteous but sinners”.
And from Luke,
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favour.”
Jesus does finish the quote in an interesting place here- doesn't proclaim the day of the Lord's vengeance as well.
J 2:23 But Jesus on his part would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.
“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick; I have come to call not the righteous but sinners”.
And from Luke,
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favour.”
Jesus does finish the quote in an interesting place here- doesn't proclaim the day of the Lord's vengeance as well.
J 2:23 But Jesus on his part would not entrust himself to them, for he knew all men. He did not need man's testimony about man, for he knew what was in a man.
4:12 hardening hearts
On the other side, there are times when God hardens peoples hearts- such as pharoah. I imagine there's tendencies already there, and it all works with free will- perhaps they are given over to a natural tendency- like when Paul talks about God giving people up to their natural lusts.
“ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of those who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible thought they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So that they are without excuse; for though they knew God, they did not honour him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools; and they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four- footed animals or reptiles.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with lust for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and things which should not be done. They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious towards parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. They know God's decree, that those who practice such things die- yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.
“ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of those who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible thought they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So that they are without excuse; for though they knew God, they did not honour him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools; and they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four- footed animals or reptiles.
Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with lust for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and things which should not be done. They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious towards parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. They know God's decree, that those who practice such things die- yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.
4:12- Isaiah
In Isaiah the verse comes as Isaiah has a pretty full on vision of God in the temple. His response- Woe is me! I am lost, for I am a man of unclean lips. and I live among a people of unclean lips; yet my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts! - A markedly different response to most of the people who come into contact with Jesus (though not Peter). An appropriate response (the Seraphs don't argue- one just comes and touches his lips with a live coal- so that his guilt may depart and sin be blotted out.
“Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? And I said, “Here I am; send me!” And he said, “Go and say to this people: Keep listening, but do not comprehend; keep looking, but do not understand.' Make the mind of this people dull, and stop up their ears, and shut their eyes, so that they may not look with their eyes, and listen with their ears, and comprehend with their minds, and turn and be healed.”
So Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn it- but there are no free tickets- no automatic selections. In our ' godlikeness' we have to hear, see and choose.
Sounds like the Isaiah passage is coming from years of Israel's disobedience. That Isaiah is being told to go and give a weird message- I have come to tell you something that I do not want you to get- My frustration level with you is high- so much disobedience- so much disregard for what is most important and true. Many, many times before God has pleaded, told them to shape up/ turn back- but this seems like a bit of a Noah moment- a judgement moment. -impending exile.
Or perhaps there's a resignation here, or realism- I know you wont listen to this- so that when Isaiah says to them “keep listening but do not comprehend- its more like a description of what will happen or what normally happens- an obligatory listening with no intention of hearing.
“Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? And I said, “Here I am; send me!” And he said, “Go and say to this people: Keep listening, but do not comprehend; keep looking, but do not understand.' Make the mind of this people dull, and stop up their ears, and shut their eyes, so that they may not look with their eyes, and listen with their ears, and comprehend with their minds, and turn and be healed.”
So Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn it- but there are no free tickets- no automatic selections. In our ' godlikeness' we have to hear, see and choose.
Sounds like the Isaiah passage is coming from years of Israel's disobedience. That Isaiah is being told to go and give a weird message- I have come to tell you something that I do not want you to get- My frustration level with you is high- so much disobedience- so much disregard for what is most important and true. Many, many times before God has pleaded, told them to shape up/ turn back- but this seems like a bit of a Noah moment- a judgement moment. -impending exile.
Or perhaps there's a resignation here, or realism- I know you wont listen to this- so that when Isaiah says to them “keep listening but do not comprehend- its more like a description of what will happen or what normally happens- an obligatory listening with no intention of hearing.
4:12- Paul
At the end of Acts Paul has summoned the Jewish leaders of Rome to him (he's under house arrest), From morning to evening he talks to them- some were convinced- others refused to believe- And Paul's passing shot as they are leaving is to quote this verse- and use it to show a hardness of heart that refuses to believe (hear, see), and that “this salvation of God has been sent to the gentiles; they will listen.”
Then along the same lines in Romans 11, What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, God gave them a sluggish spirit, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”
Then along the same lines in Romans 11, What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, God gave them a sluggish spirit, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”
4:12- John II
John, after asserting that the people could not believe, because Isaiah said... blinded, might not see...
and that Isaiah saw Jesus glory and spoke about him- then goes on- Nevertheless many, even of the authorities believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they did not confess it, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved human glory more than the glory that comes from God.
So it's a generalisation – seeing and not hearing- which holds generally true- but there are those who hear and see. Some of them are like the seed that falls in soil with weeds- like here, the worries of this life – human glory, comes in and chokes the life out of it.
Yep – too often- human glory- what a boring task master.
and that Isaiah saw Jesus glory and spoke about him- then goes on- Nevertheless many, even of the authorities believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they did not confess it, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved human glory more than the glory that comes from God.
So it's a generalisation – seeing and not hearing- which holds generally true- but there are those who hear and see. Some of them are like the seed that falls in soil with weeds- like here, the worries of this life – human glory, comes in and chokes the life out of it.
Yep – too often- human glory- what a boring task master.
Revelation 5
Then I saw in the right hand of the one seated on the throne a scroll written on the inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals; and I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” And no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. And I began to weep bitterly because no-one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has conquered so he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Then I saw between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders a Lamb standing as if it had been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He went up and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne. When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation; you have made them to be a kingdom of priests serving our God, and they will reign on earth.”
Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels surrounding the throne and living creatures and elders; they numbered myriads and myriads and thousands of thousands, singing with full voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slaughtered to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honour and glory and blessing!”
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, singing,
“To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honour and glory and might forever and ever!”
“And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the elders fell down and worshiped.
Then I saw between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders a Lamb standing as if it had been slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. He went up and took the scroll from the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne. When he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty four elders fell before the Lamb, each holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. They sing a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slaughtered and by your blood you ransomed for God saints from every tribe and language and people and nation; you have made them to be a kingdom of priests serving our God, and they will reign on earth.”
Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels surrounding the throne and living creatures and elders; they numbered myriads and myriads and thousands of thousands, singing with full voice, “Worthy is the Lamb that was slaughtered to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honour and glory and blessing!”
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, singing,
“To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honour and glory and might forever and ever!”
“And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” And the elders fell down and worshiped.
4:12- John
Looking at the cross-references in my bible- this verse is quoted at least three other times in the New Testament. In John as an editorial comment explaining why, when he had done so many signs in their presence, that people did not believe in him. Of the verse, John says- “Isaiah said this because he saw his glory and spoke about him.”
Is this a case of a New Testament author using the Old Testament in a not particularly obvious to our eyes Christological way? It doesn't read to me as though Isaiah is talking about Jesus or looking forward to him when he writes these words. Although, if I was in Isaiah's shoes I'm not sure what I would be thinking- that's a pretty amazing vision to have- It's pretty glorious- God in the temple, with the hem of his robe filling it, seraphs flying around and calling out- holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory- then, bang, cue the smoke machine.
But John, I don't think is talking about Isaiah beholding the obvious here- God's awesomeness right in front of him, More he somehow saw into the future and saw Jesus, perhaps the crucifixion? (this is Jesus glory isn't it?) and spoke about the unbelief of Israel in the face of this.
It does fit, in terms of the sweep of the story, It's just that Isaiah doesn't really read that way, I think.
Is this a case of a New Testament author using the Old Testament in a not particularly obvious to our eyes Christological way? It doesn't read to me as though Isaiah is talking about Jesus or looking forward to him when he writes these words. Although, if I was in Isaiah's shoes I'm not sure what I would be thinking- that's a pretty amazing vision to have- It's pretty glorious- God in the temple, with the hem of his robe filling it, seraphs flying around and calling out- holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of his glory- then, bang, cue the smoke machine.
But John, I don't think is talking about Isaiah beholding the obvious here- God's awesomeness right in front of him, More he somehow saw into the future and saw Jesus, perhaps the crucifixion? (this is Jesus glory isn't it?) and spoke about the unbelief of Israel in the face of this.
It does fit, in terms of the sweep of the story, It's just that Isaiah doesn't really read that way, I think.
lest they turn back and be forgiven- 4:12
Why such a method?
Jesus answer is- lest they turn back and be forgiven. - Which on a first reading doesn't seem particularly satisfactory- or loving or gracious perhaps.
Doesn't seem to convey quite the same spirit as John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him...
Though reading on judgement is clearly here-
Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.”
Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock and door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be open” then Matthew records Jesus saying basically that God is good and for us.
I don't think it's possible to be too prescriptive about how people come to God or Salvation- Saul wasn't particularly looking for Jesus- Jesus came looking for him- blinded him- and sent him on a different path. However, I think there's things here that hold generally true. God does not make it too easy- mostly he does not come swooping down on the clouds and clearly reveal himself to the whole world (though I imagine there's places where they do experience amazing things corporately- towns and villages). It may be there is a certain amount of parable weaving going on. I think he does seek everyone (what do you back that up with? John 3:17?)(1 Tim ...) - But not much will happen unless the soil is good- there are epiphanies happening in people's lives all the time- he is sowing- often through his servants- but unless people follow the threads and ask, and seek and knock, they will experience condemnation. Where does Paul say- “without faith it is impossible to please God”. Nowhere- it's in Hebrews- ll:6 ..., for whoever would approach him must believe that he rewards those who seek him.”
Very much I'd say, God wants us to exercise faith- Abraham's faith credited as righteousness. Hence, Jesus enigmatic quotation on being enigmatic- So that seeing they might see and not behold, and hearing they might hear and not understand, lest they turn back and be forgiven.
Jesus answer is- lest they turn back and be forgiven. - Which on a first reading doesn't seem particularly satisfactory- or loving or gracious perhaps.
Doesn't seem to convey quite the same spirit as John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life. “Indeed, God did not send the Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him...
Though reading on judgement is clearly here-
Those who believe in him are not condemned; but those who do not believe are condemned already, because they have not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgement, that the light has come into the world, and people loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. For all who do evil hate the light and do not come to the light, so that their deeds may not be exposed. But those who do what is true come to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that their deeds have been done in God.”
Ask, and it will be given you; search, and you will find; knock and door will be opened for you. For everyone who asks receives, and everyone who searches finds, and for everyone who knocks, the door will be open” then Matthew records Jesus saying basically that God is good and for us.
I don't think it's possible to be too prescriptive about how people come to God or Salvation- Saul wasn't particularly looking for Jesus- Jesus came looking for him- blinded him- and sent him on a different path. However, I think there's things here that hold generally true. God does not make it too easy- mostly he does not come swooping down on the clouds and clearly reveal himself to the whole world (though I imagine there's places where they do experience amazing things corporately- towns and villages). It may be there is a certain amount of parable weaving going on. I think he does seek everyone (what do you back that up with? John 3:17?)(1 Tim ...) - But not much will happen unless the soil is good- there are epiphanies happening in people's lives all the time- he is sowing- often through his servants- but unless people follow the threads and ask, and seek and knock, they will experience condemnation. Where does Paul say- “without faith it is impossible to please God”. Nowhere- it's in Hebrews- ll:6 ..., for whoever would approach him must believe that he rewards those who seek him.”
Very much I'd say, God wants us to exercise faith- Abraham's faith credited as righteousness. Hence, Jesus enigmatic quotation on being enigmatic- So that seeing they might see and not behold, and hearing they might hear and not understand, lest they turn back and be forgiven.
Sunday, February 14, 2010
Musterion- 4:11-12
Musterion (that would be with a line over the e)- Not a mystery in our sense of the word- well we don't know how that quite works- or here's a baffling situation, but more something hidden now revealed- to you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God. And for those on the outside it is to remain hidden- and things will not be made too easy for them. Its hard to understand- and I'm not sure I do- but I think it fits. Jesus comes to the world as a baby- immanuel 'God is with us' – But who could have expected that to look quite like it did. His miracles were amazing- but they were only done in the small area of Palestine and Tyre and Sidon- mostly around Galilee. There was no sprint over to Rome in a day and then uplift the Colosseum with a hand gesture, then put all the soldiers in it as it floated above the crowds and the senators and caesar, then telling them there was a better way- not of the sword, but of peace and love and grace- then showing Caesar the error of his ways- him repenting, while Jesus tore off on a few thunderclouds to China and South America and India, for similar demonstrations and epoch ending and beginning changes. And then he doesn't come back each generation like Aslan, so that everyone knows this is a divinely visited planet, and Jesus is the divinity and this is what he is on about. (In one sense all this does happen- but the time frames and the mechanisms for the changes are different- Rome does fall, and there is a Caesar who repents and sets a different course for the empire, Jesus does visit different continents-but not in a boat to America (do blue people feature in that story?) - through his followers who carry this hidden reality of the kingdom within them. And he meets each generation in all sorts of ways- most of them veiled in some form or other.
Thursday, February 11, 2010
Circles and younger lords- 4:10-11
v10 oi peri auton – those around him or more permanently, those of his circle (Zerwick and Grosvener) I'm not sure exactly what they mean by more permanently- I suppose can be both- either a gathering that has just come together once or a more permanent arrangement. So this 'circle' with the 12 ask him questions about the parables- when he was alone. I wonder how big this circle was? He chose 12 from a larger group- the larger group perhaps most of these people still. Do they envy the disciples position? Does Jesus know each of there names- I would think he would be better at me at this, and that the larger circle wouldn't be like a rock band with roadies, where the stars have no idea who are in the outer circles. More like in Cornerstone with Laurie- there's a man who is busy and is the leader of this movement but he has time for people and seems excited to be talking to you though you are a pleb- very winsome- I'm sure that was what was operating. I've only known Laurie as an old man- not a contemporary- I wonder how I'd go if Jesus turned up at around 30 now? Younger than me, but the lord of all? I suppose it begins happening more and more as you get older- Not that you end up meeting the lord of all (although in one sense you do), but there are young punks whose understanding or ability is greater than yours- and you can learn from them- and in a sense sit at there feet though they are younger than you. Don't think I necessary find this all that easy.
It's a spinout thinking of Nicodemus being captured by Jesus winsomeness/ character/ intellect- and becoming a follower.
v 11 kai elegen autois, “Ymin to musterion dedotai tes basileias tou Theou ekeinois de tois exw en parabolais to panta gintetai ...
And he said to them, to you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God but to those outside everything comes in parables.
So if you're inside the circle you get more of an insight- if you're outside you've got a bit of a smokescreen happening and Jesus (who at times seems to do enigmatic effortlessly) is actually trying to be enigmatic.
And he quotes to them as the reason- something like- so that seeing, they might see and not behold, and hearing they might hear and not understand, lest they turn back and be forgiven.
Surely the 'circle' must have been sitting there scratching there heads. Perhaps even more so evangelical Christians.
It's a spinout thinking of Nicodemus being captured by Jesus winsomeness/ character/ intellect- and becoming a follower.
v 11 kai elegen autois, “Ymin to musterion dedotai tes basileias tou Theou ekeinois de tois exw en parabolais to panta gintetai ...
And he said to them, to you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God but to those outside everything comes in parables.
So if you're inside the circle you get more of an insight- if you're outside you've got a bit of a smokescreen happening and Jesus (who at times seems to do enigmatic effortlessly) is actually trying to be enigmatic.
And he quotes to them as the reason- something like- so that seeing, they might see and not behold, and hearing they might hear and not understand, lest they turn back and be forgiven.
Surely the 'circle' must have been sitting there scratching there heads. Perhaps even more so evangelical Christians.
Parables- 4:2-9
How many other teachers would have been using parables at the time? What's happening for the listeners as they listen? Potentially the same as what happens to 'us' as we listen. There are probably some things we miss first time in the New Testament, because we don't have the Jewish background. But mostly not so with parables perhaps- just as vivid 2000 years on – mostly cross culture gaps. Mark doesn't spend too much time dwelling on Jesus teaching. I wonder how he heard this from Peter? Why does he select the parables he does? Starts with the parable about seeds and soils- I suppose it does follow on from -”whoever does the will of God is my brother and sister and mother,” A good family member will be fruitful- will take what has been sown and let it grow.
Some seed falls on the hard path- doesn't even penetrate- gets taken away. Next on the rocky ground where there wasn't much soil- springs up quickly- but when things get a bit hard- shrivels and dies- (I suppose like 'Snow' from Bourke), then seed falls among thorns- they choke it and it yields no grain- then seed in good soil- multiplies grain. Jesus explanation a little further on seems fair enough. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Some seed falls on the hard path- doesn't even penetrate- gets taken away. Next on the rocky ground where there wasn't much soil- springs up quickly- but when things get a bit hard- shrivels and dies- (I suppose like 'Snow' from Bourke), then seed falls among thorns- they choke it and it yields no grain- then seed in good soil- multiplies grain. Jesus explanation a little further on seems fair enough. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Tuesday, February 9, 2010
I see you- 4:1-2
Chapter 4
Is the 'again' referring back to 3:7? - he responds the same way, gets into a boat and sits there with the whole crowd on the land. It must have been still. If it was windy would the crowd just not come?
He began to teach them many things in parables- what was Mark's understanding of parables?
France, - “they tend to puzzle as much as enlighten, and are designed to shock and challenge rather than to offer reassuring explanations or illustrations of moral platitudes.” In LXX parable translates masal (includes not only or even primarily illustrative stories, but epigrams, proverbs, pictorial sayings, even riddles... He quotes Moule who says a parable is like a good modern political cartoon. (p183-184)
v3 Akouete – imperative- hear. France picks up on this. Interesting- being told to hear- then he tells a parable, which may not tell you very much if you don't 'hear' it very well. The NIV has listen! which is probably better English- but I imagine not a better translation- its somehow a bit more passive- and I think Jesus was after very 'active listening' (a pity to use an educational term- why is it so many educational terms have a cringe factor?- I think because there is a certain amount of priestcraft about them- too many priests using 'enlightened' vocabulary to say something relatively simple in a complicated way. - too many opinions and religion and not enough common sense.)
Avatars “I see you” onto something. The disciples didn't really 'hear' Jesus until after his death- and then they were given assistance by the Holy Spirit. Because 'hear' is an everyday word, perhaps it is easy to miss the depth with which Jesus uses it- 'Fully hear'. And the opposite to the educationalist priestcraft may operate with Jesus- He was saying profound things simply – so people often missed what he said.
In John Jesus talks about 'seeing the Father' – Jesus presented himself as a parable to his listeners- come hear, come see- it may seem like a riddle- but if you hear well enough, and open your eyes wide enough, you will know that the Father and I are one.
Is the 'again' referring back to 3:7? - he responds the same way, gets into a boat and sits there with the whole crowd on the land. It must have been still. If it was windy would the crowd just not come?
He began to teach them many things in parables- what was Mark's understanding of parables?
France, - “they tend to puzzle as much as enlighten, and are designed to shock and challenge rather than to offer reassuring explanations or illustrations of moral platitudes.” In LXX parable translates masal (includes not only or even primarily illustrative stories, but epigrams, proverbs, pictorial sayings, even riddles... He quotes Moule who says a parable is like a good modern political cartoon. (p183-184)
v3 Akouete – imperative- hear. France picks up on this. Interesting- being told to hear- then he tells a parable, which may not tell you very much if you don't 'hear' it very well. The NIV has listen! which is probably better English- but I imagine not a better translation- its somehow a bit more passive- and I think Jesus was after very 'active listening' (a pity to use an educational term- why is it so many educational terms have a cringe factor?- I think because there is a certain amount of priestcraft about them- too many priests using 'enlightened' vocabulary to say something relatively simple in a complicated way. - too many opinions and religion and not enough common sense.)
Avatars “I see you” onto something. The disciples didn't really 'hear' Jesus until after his death- and then they were given assistance by the Holy Spirit. Because 'hear' is an everyday word, perhaps it is easy to miss the depth with which Jesus uses it- 'Fully hear'. And the opposite to the educationalist priestcraft may operate with Jesus- He was saying profound things simply – so people often missed what he said.
In John Jesus talks about 'seeing the Father' – Jesus presented himself as a parable to his listeners- come hear, come see- it may seem like a riddle- but if you hear well enough, and open your eyes wide enough, you will know that the Father and I are one.
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